Anil Kumar’s Satsang with an Iranian Group
August 29 th, 2007
OM…OM…OM…
SAI RAM
COEXISTENCE WITH ALL FORMS
Thanks, Swami, for bringing us back once again. I heard that you had to change your venue because of mosquitoes there in the Samadhi place of Swami’s parents. We have learned to live with mosquitoes. Unless mosquitoes make some noise, we don’t sleep, because it is music to our ears! So life has become a matter of coexistence with mosquitoes and cockroaches!
I was happy with our last meeting. So many questions and so many interesting points came up during the course of our discussion. This time I will deal some aspects, after which I invite questions from you.
RELIGIOUSNESS IS UNITY
Spirituality is not academic. Religion is not a ritual. Devotion is not a part time job. Devotion cannot be restricted to Saturday, Thursday, Sunday, like that. Therefore, my friends, we have to orient our lives toward religiousness and not religion. Religiousness means observance of scriptural dictation. To behave according to our scriptures is religiousness. In other words, the practice of religion is religiousness.
Unfortunately, we stopped practicing religion, but we are preaching religion. Today we are propagating religion and not practicing religion. Today we create the propaganda and publicity of our religion, but we do not experience our religion. We are very powerful in our expression, we are very good in our writings, but we have no experience. Because we go by our talks, by our writings, by our books, by our rituals, all in the name of religion, we are divided into different religions. But if we practice our religions, religiousness, there will be unity.
Religions are enmity, religiousness is unity. Religion has an expression, religiousness is limited to experience. So my friends, the first point I want to make clear is that we have to be religious, not merely men of religion.
The second point: I should be religious as an individual first, from individual observance of religiousness. I should carry on this religiousness as a family and then move toward the society.
So first, how to be religious as an individual? See no evil, see what is good. Hear no evil, hear what is good. Think no evil, think what is good. Do no evil, do what is good. These four principles will make an individual religious. You can ask me questions on this point, but I am sure you are following.
RELIGIOUSNESS IN THE FAMILY
Then, as a family, how can we be religious? Between husband and wife there should be perfect understanding. There may be some occasional misunderstandings, there may be incidental fights, heated arguments, but they should not be deep enough to affect the children. In front of the children, they are one. Afterward they can fight and solve their problem. I take everything from Baba’s speeches only.
Just as we have two eyes, husband and wife are like two eyes looking in the same direction. If one eye looks in one direction, and another eye looks in the other direction, you do not see anything. So when there is no understanding between husband and wife, there will be no adjustment. I am not speaking to you as a bachelor or unmarried person. For your information, I have four children and seven grandchildren, and I have completed forty-three years of married life. So my observations and expressions are based on experience. I am not simply preaching; all these statements are from Swami’s teachings only.
Simple example: when the husband returns home late at night, the wife is very worried. “You must be very tired from the office, honey. You are working day and night for the family. You are struggling so hard that you did not have a proper lunch. I do not know whether you even had a snack or not. Come freshen yourself up. I will get a good dinner ready for you within no time.” All this happens when there is a perfect understanding. Even if a husband reaches home so late, because of her understanding, the wife will adjust to his coming late.
If a slight misunderstanding is there, when the wife starts doubting her husband, if the fellow reaches some ten minutes late, there will be Korean War in the family. She will ask him, “Why you are late? Where have you been? With whom have you spent this time?”, and talk with no adjustment. Therefore, as Baba says, between the husband and the wife there should be understanding, then there will be adjustment. This is religion at the level of family.
We may say, “No, sir, we fight with each other. My wife goes to the temple every Thursday, and I fast every Saturday, but we fight every day.” That is not religion. Merely going to the temple and fasting do not make you religious as a family.
So your understanding, your adjustment, is the religiousness at the level of the family. The wife should always encourage the husband to go along the spiritual path, in a righteous way, in a truthful way, in a peaceful way, in a blissful way. Even if the fellow is a bit away from that track, the wife should put him on the track. So, in addition to supporting her husband, directing her husband is the duty of the wife.
Having left her sisters, brothers, and relatives, the wife has joined her husband. So the husband should have the feeling of love towards her, because she is with him, leaving all her relatives, sisters, brothers, everyone. This is religiousness at the level of family.
How should parents behave toward their children? The parents should set an example for their children. The children grow by the training of the mother and the example of the father. Children must be made to pray everyday. We should make them hear nice stories from our scriptures. We should teach them how to be courteous, decent and mannerly. So the way we train our children is the main duty of the parents. Maintenance of the culture and traditions is the responsibility of the parents.
Then what is the religious training for the children? To follow their parents, respect their teachers, be courteous to all elders, be very good in studies, is the religion of the children.
RELIGIOusNess and islam IN SOCIETY
Then what is the religion of the community and society? As a community we should love our country. Being Iranians, you should love your country Iran first, and any other country comes next. You should love your culture, tradition, great people, and saints of your religion very much. There is no condition about it. You should keep the flag of your country flying high. You should preserve the values of your country and preserve the values of your religion. Islam places particular emphasis on brotherhood. Islam stresses faith. Islam wants us to observe rituals like fasting and visits to Mecca. Fortunately enough, I watch Quran TV, and also read Quran translation books supplied to me by my brother. So I have some idea of Islam also. This kind of brotherhood, this sort of immense faith, and this kind of sincerity towards God are the precious jewels of Islam.
This is the religion of the community. In the community, religion means the absence of ego, the presence of humility, the absence of ego. Religion in a community means not feeling jealous of each other. Religion of the community means sharing and caring for each other. Religion of the community means loving each other. Religion of the community means sharing joy with others, and sharing grief with others.
Without love you cannot call yourself religious. With that ego, it is ignorance to call oneself religious. With all the jealousy, it is foolishness to think one is religious. If one is indifferent to poverty, indifferent to starvation, indifferent to disease, indifferent to suffering of the people, then he is not religious. After all, he is in human life. Therefore, my friends, we have to serve others. That is the spirit of religion.
As for my experiences of Muslims in this country, I have not seen any Muslim begging. It is a really great thing. I have also observed many Muslims working hard. They do not mind doing even very hard physical work in order to live independently, rather than begging on the streets. Some jobs in our life are monopolized by Muslims. In the automobile industry - cars, jeeps, motorbikes, vehicle repair, and spare parts – everyone doing this work is Muslim only. These are areas of skill and hard work. There may be some anti-social elements among some people. Such anti-social elements are present in people of every religion. They disturb peace. There may be politics. Let us forget about it.
There is a Dargah in my native place. During the Muharram festival, people of all religions, of all castes, go to that Dargah. There are Brahmins, who are highly Orthodox, named Mastarnou. Even a principle of a school, one hundred percent Brahmin, is named Mastarnou. When they have no children, they go to that Dargah and pray, and when they have children, they name their children Mastarnou, like that. As cars, buses, and lorries pass the Dargah, the driver from any religion stops and breaks coconuts, offers flowers and puts some sweets there, and then proceeds.
People are good, but leaders are selfish. Politicians are selfish. They divide us, but we are all one, we love each other, we care for each other. Therefore, my friends, my main talk this evening is about religiousness, as applied to the individual, family, and community.
THE RELIGION OF LOVE
Sathya Sai Baba wants everyone to be religious. It is only in Prashanti Nilayam that people of all religions, Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, and Hindu, are joined in large numbers; there is nowhere else in the world like here. Hindus do not go to the mosque and Muslims do not go to the temple, but they are all present at the feet of Sathya Sai Baba. There are regular namaz (prayers) in the mosques, regular bhajans (spiritual songs) in the temples, but in Prashanti Nilayam, they sing “Allah Tuma Ho, Ishwara Tuma Ho,” because there is a combination of all religions here. They are not only bhajans, they are songs of unity, and they are songs of combined prayer. They are songs of the synthesis of religions.
Here no one asks you to what religion you belong. We have no religion, because Love is our religion. Love is our breath of life. Love is the path to God. Therefore, Prashanti Nilayam is not only the place of Sathya Sai Baba; it is also a place to experience the unity of religions. Each one of us will be better in our own religion than before, once we come here.
Baba has shown so many experiences to the people of different religions. To a Buddhist, He gives experiences according to Buddhist sentiments and expressions. Buddha was an enlightened soul. Actually his name was Gautama, his name was Siddhartha; but after attaining enlightenment, he became Buddha. So, Buddha is not the name of an individual. Buddha represents the Buddha-hood of enlightenment, Buddha-state of attainment.
There are so many Buddhas, enlightened souls. That is the interpretation Baba gives to a Buddha, and He clearly says, “Follow righteousness, so you can be individually good, and socially good. Righteousness will make you righteous individually and righteous socially.” That is what is meant by “Dhammam Sharanam Gachchami” (“I take refuge in the Dharma”). Surrender to dharma (universal law of righteousness), follow dharma. With this dharma, serve society.
THE qualities of Religiousness
Love all, serve all. So, as an individual, you cannot live alone; you live in a society. To share and care is your dharma. Since you are kind, you belong to ‘mankind’; otherwise, you are not mankind at all. It is not enough if you follow fashions; you should have compassion. This is what is meant by serving the society and living in the society. That is the meaning of “Sangham Sharanam Gachchami” (“I take refuge in the company of the virtuous”). So individually, follow dharma, “Dhammam Sharanam Gachchami”, and serve society, “Sangham Sharanam Gachchami”. Finally, to attain Buddha-hood, to see God in everybody, to see God in animate and inanimate, to feel God everywhere, to be godly all the time, is what is meant by “Buddham Sharanam Gachchami” (“I take refuge in the blessings of Buddha”).
So, from individual dharma, via sangha (community), you go to Divinity - I to we, we to He - individuality, community, Divinity. Therefore, my brothers and sisters, I appeal to all of you, and remind myself, that we have to develop certain qualities of religiousness. We should not hate anybody, we should not hurt anybody, we should not insult anybody, we should not criticise anybody, and we should not look down upon anybody. We should make everybody cheerful, we should make everybody laugh, and we should make everyone enjoy the fruit of life along with us, because my happiness is your happiness. If all are unhappy, I cannot be happy. So the happiness of all will affect my happiness. Therefore I should be happy and then make you happy. I should smile and make you smile.
So these are the things I wanted to say, as a long introductory note. Now I leave some time for questions.
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
Today, in such an atmosphere of violence, how can we be happy? What would you suggest to these people here to take there to help tolerate the situation?
Good! The answer is this. When you go to a hill station, like Kodaikanal, what do you do? You go to the hill station with woolen sweaters, woolen shawls, and blankets, to keep yourself warm. You do not suffer because of cold temperatures there. You protect yourself against cold.
Naturally, you love your own people. The outside factors should not disturb our inner peace, because outside things go on changing. Today there is war, tomorrow there will be peace. Today, one is a friend, tomorrow he becomes enemy. Today he says, “Hello, hello,” tomorrow, “Hell, o, hell, hell.” Today he may say, “Glad to see you”, tomorrow he might not even say goodbye. Today we say, “I love you.” Tomorrow he will avoid you. So, outside things are always changing. In the family it is like that, in the community is like that, in offices it is like that. So what shall we do? We should take care of our inner values. You may not love me, but I love you. You may not like me, but I like you. You may harm me, but I help you. I may be your enemy, but you are my friend.
Simple example: one gentleman was taking a bath in the river. There in the river one scorpion was struggling for life. The fellow tried to save the scorpion, but the scorpion stung his finger. So immediately he dropped it into the river. But it was struggling, so he picked up the scorpion for the second time to save it. It started stinging again; he dropped it again. Seeing it struggling, again he picked it up. Other people were watching this man, thinking “What is this man doing?” They said, “You are a fool number one. A scorpion is stinging and you drop it, then you pick it up. What is all this?” And this man said, “A scorpion’s habit is to sting, and my habit is to save. When it has not given up its habit, why should I give up my habit. After all, if a scorpion should maintain its dharma of stinging, why should I leave my dharma?”
So similarly, in the family or the community, in the office or the society, there may be disturbances full of agitations, full of violence, bloodshed, bombing, shooting, but we should not change ourselves. Our peace is our peace. And we should slowly spread this peace to others. All good qualities are within us, they are not outside.
Even the baby comes out of the womb of the mother, not from the outside. Sweets: it is the tongue inside that tastes, not the sweet outside. The sweet does not say, “I am sweet, I am sweet.” It is the tongue that says, “It is sweet.” A rose flower has a good smell. It is the nose which says it has good smell; a rose does not say, “I smell good.” All these experiences are happening inside us, not outside. Similarly, truth, righteousness, love, peace, non-violence, and sacrifice are all within me, not outside. So I should share my inner values with outer people.
In all religions, when a lady goes to a temple, church, or mosque, she should cover her hair. For me, inner values are important, rather than covering my hair. What is Baba’s point of view about this? And secondly, Baba told Iranian ladies in an interview that because you are from Iran, you should cover your hair, and in another interview, He told others that is ignorance.
One of the Iranian ladies answers: I was in that interview and the ladies told Baba that our government is forcing us to cover our hair. Baba said it is ignorance, meaning that this forcing is ignorance.
There are certain things which are observed as customs and traditions of the land. These things have nothing to do with the religion. Hindus think if they see a black cat, it is a bad omen for them. And Hindus think if they see a widow first in the morning, it is a bad omen for them. These are not there in any scriptures. If one’s mother is a widow, are you going to throw her out, or what? Are you going to kill all bad black cats? This is all foolishness.
So some of these customs and traditions have come during a certain period of time, and so they are observed, all in the name of religion; but it is nonsense. For example, Hindus think that the Gayathri mantra should not be chanted by women. It is horrible. Gayathri herself is a lady. How can we say women should not chant it? So certain things appear as tradition and custom, all in the name of religion.
A personal note here: Hindus believed that a girl should marry at the age of eight. Girls had never graduated to the level of college or university in those days. Believe me or not, my mother was the first lady graduated in the whole of Andhra Pradesh state. All other old ladies, who had no work to do, were saying, “She is going to school. Chi, chi!” They did not like her, but she was the first graduate.
Today, ladies at a young age are graduated. Scripture never says, “Ladies should remain uneducated.” But in those days, they never allowed the ladies to come out of their houses. My mother must have married at the age of twenty-two, while in those days, girls used to marry at the age of sixteen. They didn’t like it. Today girls get married when they want to. The father says, “Please get married.” The daughter says, “Keep quiet! I should complete my degree. I should get my salary, and then think of it, okay?”
Today society has been changed. In those days, society was small, limited and narrow, but today the whole world is like a village, a global village. So there is a constant flow and exchange of ideas, so that we are growing higher and higher. If you want to follow your scriptures, so far as the rituals are concerned, it is okay. But in spirit, it has a different meaning. In those days, women had burka (cloth face cover) for protection; but today man needs burka for protection, because women are so powerful today! (Laughter)
There is a bit of confusion. Swami told some people to cover and, to some others, not to cover.
Swami’s answers always depend on your state of mind. If we are highly ritualistic, orthodox, Swami says, “Cover your hair.” If you are modern with a western education, He will say, “No, no. These are all external; inside is important.” Both are correct.
Love brings attachment, but Swami is against attachment. How are we going to do that?
Love and attachment are not same. Loving my children is not only love but also my responsibility. Taking care of my children, educating them, getting them married, settling their lives, is not merely love but also responsibility. But to expect them to take care of us in our old age, to expect them to send us money every month, is attachment. Love as love has no expectations; but attachment implies expectations. Therefore, we should love without attachment.
Do everything as our duty, with love, and then we are not getting attached because we don’t have expectations. My father has taken care of me. Therefore, I will take care of my son. As parents, we should know that children are not born to us. Children are born through us. That is important. Parents are only channels for the expression of life in the form of a newborn child. Parents have given a chance for the life to blossom, but the flower does not belong to you. Similarly, children are flowers; you cannot own them. You love the flower, enjoy the smell. Do not pluck it and own it. To pluck it and own it is attachment. To let it grow till it blossoms is love. If you love a particular person, it brings attachment. But if you love everyone, there will be no attachment. As a lover, you can love one or two. If you are Love itself, you can love all. Then there will be no attachment. So, be not a lover; be Love.
As a mother, how is it possible not to be attached to my children?
You are attached to your children as a responsibility. But when the son is independent, you still love him, but you are no longer attached as a responsibility. Attachment is bondage, love is liberation. Attachment is ugly, love is beautiful. Attachment is expectation, love has no expectation. Attachment is individual, love is universal. Attachment is painful, love is blissful. Attachment is human, love is Divine.
Some parents are really worried about their children. Why?
Please remember that I am a parent and also a grandparent. We do not observe our children as our children, but we compare them with the rest of children in society. He got first class, so you should get first class. She sings well, so you sing well. She dances, so you dance. He is an engineer, so you should be a computer engineer. He is a doctor, so you also become a doctor. So we do not see our children as our children, we see them through the glasses of others’ children. That is why you worry.
Secondly, we do not give enough personal time, personal space, and playtime for our children. We pass on our tension to them also. We are full of tension and make our children full of tension.
Third point: we should consider that children should have all ‘round development - physical development, mental development, intellectual development. We want them only to earn money, we want them to occupy high positions, and we want them to become great. But we don’t want them to be good, we don’t want them to be humble, we don’t teach them how to be simple. Styles and fashions, we make them spend money more and more. Please spend more money today! So that fellow knows only how to earn money to maintain his standards of life. We don’t give any idea of cultural values, but we give importance to the civilization, style, car, that is all. So these are all false ideas that make a parent feel worried.
Do not worry! Worry is not a solution. Worry will bring many more problems. Worry will make you fall sick. Worry will also make you unfriendly, because if you are worried, nobody will come and talk to you. Why should I have your worries? I have enough worries. Worry will affect our work. So worry is a useless thing which most of us have.
If worried, let us pray to God. He will take much better care. We will be peaceful, problems will be solved. I will tell you from my own experience. Suppose I have a fight with anyone; I pray within myself, “Oh God, You in me is very much same in him also, so be peaceful there as You are peaceful here.” Please believe me, many fellows keep silent; they won’t fight. So this is better than fighting with you. Pray to God within instead of fighting or worrying. That way we save everybody and get immediate results.
May I ask a question about karma (destiny, fate) and incarnation? Why do some people right now have a good life though they are not good, while other people are really good but they suffer?
We cannot really know if one has a good life right now. We have to watch life till the end. If they are going to suffer, how can they be comfortable now? One may suffer now, but may be fine later. We think good people are suffering, but good people think that suffering is the test of God. They say, “God wants me to develop faith.” Therefore, they face difficulties in life. We may think they are suffering; but they do not think they are suffering because God is protecting them.
So suffering and enjoying is only from our perspective. How can you say one is enjoying? One may say, “Sir, so and so is going in Swami’s car. How lucky he is.” I answer, “You may think he is lucky, but the man in the car is full of tension. How can he be lucky? If you see his face, you will know that.” So, let us not judge.
Could you share with us the beautiful story of your daughter’s marriage, when Swami called you to accompany Him to Mumbai?
It was a worrying experience! And you want to hear about it so you can enjoy Anil Kumar’s worry! Swami wanted me to follow Him to Mumbai. He wanted to stay there from the 10th to the 14th of May. May13th was the date for the marriage of my second daughter. If I were there in Mumbai, I could not perform her marriage here. Cards were distributed, the marriage party was ready, and it was to be performed in Tirupathi.
Swami wanted me to follow Him. I said, “Swami, when are we starting?” He said, “On the 10th we are starting.” I asked, “Swami, how long we are staying?” “We are staying till the14th,” He said. “Swami, my daughter’s marriage is on 13th.” He said, “What can I do?” and He left.
The next day He came again. “Swami, my daughter’s marriage....” He said, “See, Anil Kumar, what can I do? All those Mumbai fellows want you, and Indulal Shah wants you only. What can I do?” and He left.
Then I sent a message to Him through someone, “Anil Kumar has to perform his daughter’s marriage on the 13th. Please allow him to stay here, because in our group there is Narasimha Murthy, warden of Brindavan College, who is also a translator. So for translation purposes you can make use of him, but for marriage purposes, I can stay here.”
But He took all of us. We reached Mumbai: 10th over, 11th over. On the morning of the 12th I went to His room. “Swami, my daughter’s marriage is tomorrow.” Swami said, “Oh, tomorrow, not today.” I said, “Swami, tomorrow night is the marriage.” He said, “Oh, a lot of time.” And He kept quiet.
Then in the afternoon, a few Mumbai people came and said, “Swami wanted us to take you to see some shops in Mumbai.” They showed me a number of suits, and also jewels, in the shops. They wanted me to buy, but I had no money, so how could I buy?
They said, “Anil Kumar, take some items. You can send the money later.”
But I said, “Not even later can I pay you. I have so many expenditures now.”
They insisted, “You should buy.” Without asking, they kept three of each item in my bags. They just asked me, “How many daughters and sons do you have?” They started to put three suits in the suitcase, three sarees. My heartbeat was doubling because I would have to pay. They put some ear stuff, some rings, jewels, three sets there.
I was thinking, “How am I going to pay back the money, in this life or the next life?”
Then we reached the place. They said, “Swami told us that your daughter’s marriage is tomorrow, and He wanted us to take you shopping.”
“Swami asked you to take me, but who will pay?”
They said, “You don’t worry! You are Swami’s guest, Swami will pay.” I didn’t pay a single penny, but I got so many clothes and everything for the children and everyone.
Then, on the 12th, Indulal Shah came to me. He said, “Mr. Anil Kumar, behind the stage there is a car. Immediately after Swami’s discourse is over, get into the car and go to the airport. We have everything ready. Swami’s discourse will be over by six o’clock. You can get into the car by 6:15; you will reach the airport by 7 o’clock. There at the airport are seva dals. They will take your luggage beforehand and they will take your boarding card. Then you can fly.”
I said, “Everything is fine.”
But our God started His speech and went on until 7:30. How to go? How to catch the flight? He kept on speaking and I was translating. And when we came out, it was 7:45. So I thought, “Everything is gone.” Mumbai fellows displayed fireworks. Swami said, “See how the fireworks are, how nice.” There were fireworks in my heart!
Then, at the end of the fireworks, Swami asked me, “Anil Kumar, when is the marriage?”
I replied, “Swami, tomorrow evening!”
Baba said, “The flight left, how can you go?”
I said, “Swami, Your grace, what can I do?”
Then He said, “Have your food, watch the Balvikas cultural program, and go.”
I asked, “Where to go? The flight left already.”
Swami said, “Look here, I delayed that flight two and a half hours. The flight will leave at 10:30. Do not worry. You can go. Everything will be done. Do not worry.”
“Okay, Swami,” I said.
Then I came to Tirupathi. I did not know where the marriage was going to be performed; I did not know when the marriage party would arrive. While passing the railway station, I saw some seva dals with scarves. I asked them, “Is the state president on his official tour to Tirupathi?”
They said, “No, sir, your daughter’s marriage.” “For my daughter’s marriage! Why do you wear scarves and so on?” “Sir, the bridegroom’s party is coming. We have come to receive them, because you may come or may not come, but the marriage will take place. We made all the arrangements, even in your absence.”
Just then the train arrived on the platform. The bridegroom and his parents came down from the train. Where do they go? Where do they stay? Where does the marriage take place? I do not know. The District President came and said, “Mr. Anil Kumar, there are three air-conditioned cars and one bus. We will take all of you there.”
I said, “Where?”
“Sir, there is a guest house where thirteen rooms are reserved for you.” I went along with them. What about food, lunch? I do not know.
The seva dals told me, “Arrangements are made for breakfast, lunch, tea, and dinner. You do not worry.”
I said, “When is the marriage? Where is the marriage going to be performed?”
“Sir, there is a place here, a big hall. There the marriage will be performed. Do not worry!”
I went there. The priest, guests, and seva dals had arranged everything. I did not have any work to do. My only work was to change my clothing for video purposes. There are more of my photos than photos of the bride and groom!
That is how it happened, you see. When you surrender to God and do His work, He will do yours even better than what you can do.
Thank you very much for your time. Thank you for being here. We are thankful and grateful to Brother Lakhi, who makes all these talks available on the Sai Wisdom website, so all Sai devotees around the world will use them. Those of you who have not met him should know that he is doing the greatest service in spreading the Sai message.
I love you and I pray Baba showers His blessings on you. May your life be full of smiles, may your life be full of music and dance, may your life shine like moonlight, and may it be bright forever and ever.
Thank you. Sai Ram.