Professor Anil Kumar has presented this talk as an extra satsang. He has selected important messages Baba has imparted to the students gathered around Him during the afternoon sessions on the veranda at Prashanti Nilayam. These talks will continue.

ANIL KUMAR'S SATSANG:

BABA'S CONVERSATIONS WITH STUDENTS

“Sai Pearls of Wisdom”

Part Nineteen

        February 22^nd, 2003

                                                  OM…OM…OM…

Sai Ram

With Pranams at the Lotus Feet of Bhagavan

   Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Welcome back to this evening session. By Bhagavan's grace, we are nearing completion of our project. That does not mean this is going to be discontinued. Certainly not! We will continue it. I am also on the job to find the 1998 and 1999 conversations of Swami with the students. Then we will also pass them on, transmit them to the world of Sai devotees. We have taken this on as a matter of sadhana.

Black and White - both are in me

Well, I did some homework to make the presentation this evening. This relates to April 2001. As I said the other day, these are the months from the Sanathana Sarathi Telugu version.

It was around 4:30 p.m. and Swami came out from the interview room with a beautiful smile. That evening, He was quite enthusiastic to convey something special. He came close to us and said, "Have you seen them?"

Can we say, “Yes”? Then He may say, “Why did you see? (Laughter) You are not supposed to see everybody around here.” Suppose we say, “No.” Then the response may come, “You are sitting here. What are you doing anyway?” (Laughter) Actually, it is just an inconsequential question. The boys have learned the art of communication – namely, silence. (Laughter)

Then I said, “Swami, I observed.” It is risk-proof hour! (Laughter)

So Swami asked, ”Whom did you observe?”

“Swami, I saw you call a group of boys from Africa for an interview.”

Baba said, "Yes, you are right. But they are not just boys; they are Bal Vikas gurus."

“Oh, I see Swami. That is very good to know.”

Then Bhagavan said, "Have you seen the one elderly man in the group?"

Well, having come this far, there was no point in hiding anything now. I said, “Yes Swami, I saw him.” (Laughter)

Then He said, "You know him?"

“Swami, I know him, but I haven’t met him.”

"How do you know him?" (Laughter)

“He addressed the students in Bangalore and he also addressed the students in Prashanti Nilayam, so I know him. “

Then Bhagavan said, ”He is Victor Kanu, head of the Sai center and head of the Sai School for Education in Human Values.  He is a man of excellence and a long-standing devotee of Bhagavan.” Then Bhagavan added, “That Victor Kanu, you know?”

“Ah Swami, what?”

“I performed his marriage.”

“I see.”

“Then both the husband and wife decided to work for Swami. All the time they are thinking of how best to serve Swami. That has been their continuous endeavor and continuous prayer. They are managing the school very efficiently.” That’s what Bhagavan said.

Somehow I said, “Swami, all of them are blacks; all of them are blacks.”

The expression of Swami’s face turned serious. “I don't have any distinction of blacks or whites, browns or yellow or pink. (Laughter) No distinction! All are the same to me - do you understand?”

“Yes, Swami I understand, but I am talking about those that came out of the interview room. Swami, somehow I have some preferences in respect to complexion. I have not condemned anything. I just said I have some preferences.”

Baba said, "Because you have preferences in respect to skin complexion, you fellows are suffering. You suffer like this because you go by the external complexion of the skin. Therefore, all of you are suffering.  Know that black and white are both in me."

“Oh, I see. Both are in you, Swami?”

"Yes, why not?"

My friends, most of you know that Krishna was described with a dark blue complexion. Krishna was dark in His complexion. Rama was blue in His complexion. Balarama was fair in his complexion. So all these complexions, all these colors, are in Divinity.

You would also agree with me when I say that, in the sunlight, all colors are present. Sunlight may appear to be pure white. However, when you pass the beam of white light through the prism of glass, you find all seven colors, don't you? Similarly, in Bhagavan all colors, all complexions, exist.

Are you happy? Are you healthy?

Now I will pass on to the next episode. A very elderly doctor was coming along the veranda after a long gap of being absent. We came to know that he recently had an operation. So, he had not been coming for darshan. That day he happened to come for darshan. You know what Bhagavan said?

"Are you happy, doctor? Are you healthy?"

He asked these two questions: “Are you happy? Are you healthy?” Without being healthy, how can you be happy? So one must be necessarily happy when one is healthy.

I said, “Both are the same; so, why two?”

Swami said "Why? What is wrong with you?"

“Swami, why did you ask these two questions? ‘Are you happy? Are you healthy?’ “

Bhagavan said, "These two are necessary. Some people are healthy, but they are not happy. What is health without happiness? Some people are happy outside, but they are not healthy. Their health is gone. So, it’s not enough if you are merely happy. It’s necessary that you should also be healthy. And it’s not enough if you are healthy; you should also be happy.”

For doing good, never take time

Now I will go on to the next episode. Bhagavan said one thing: “Whatever I give, it’s only for My happiness. All gifts of grace are meant for My own pleasure. I don't consider it a donation or charity because you all belong to Me. I feel that you and I are One. I consider your happiness as My happiness.”

It is also interesting to note, particularly when Swami goes on giving to everybody, how tireless He is. The tireless God, without any fatigue, goes on distributing clothes, watches, rings or chains. He knows no rest. Still, He is never tired because that Hand is always giving and forgiving.

At this moment, Swami made a remark: “Boys, look here. When you decide to do anything good, do it immediately. Do not delay. Don't take time. Do it immediately. If any bad thought comes into your mind, don’t take action; take some time. Wait and think. For doing good, never take time. Proceed immediately.” 

Then in a jovial way Bhagavan said, "There are some people who announce on a platform a donation of one lakh rupees, 100,000 - an act of charity! But they go home and the wife says, ‘Where is the money to give?’ Then this fellow will have second thoughts. (Laughter) Why one lakh? 50,000, I think that is enough. (Laughter) The next morning when someone comes to collect the money, he gives the fellow 10,000 for now. ‘I will give you more later.’ (Laughter) So, from 100,000 the fellow comes down to 10,000. Why? He has taken time to think.”

You get if only you give

I can also share with you another beautiful remark of Swami, which is very interesting and important for all of us: “When you give, you get.” We don't feel like giving because we are afraid that we may lose. Yet, the secret is that you get only if you give.

Further Bhagavan said, “When you go on giving, you will have infinite happiness, infinite prosperity and plenty. Therefore, learn how to give. Not only that, by giving, your karma will be reduced.”

Those of you who have not yet been exposed to Sai literature, who do not know the details of karmic effects, I can give you one example that Baba gave as sort of an explanation. While giving in an act of charity, your karmic effects will be on the decline. They will be reduced. A simple example - this is from Baba books only. (Never think that Anil Kumar is imagining and interpreting. Definitely not! I will never do it. I always tell my audience that I am not capable of interpreting or imagining. No. Living in the midst of the living, moving, loving, never failing, ever-willing God, why should I interpret?)

So, what did Swami say? Suppose we have to pay 20,000 rupees for income tax. What should we do? We don't want to pay 20,000 rupees of our hard-earned money  (Laughter). Why should we pay tax? So what can we do? If we pay some rupees for insurance, the income tax amount will be reduced. If we donate some money to charitable trusts, the income tax will be reduced. Income tax rebate or income tax reduction or income tax exemption is possible and could be likened to receiving grace.

Similarly, when I am to suffer for a long period because of karmic effects, when I attend bhajans, some amount of suffering is reduced. (Laughter) I meditate and some punishment is reduced. I do some seva and receive another exemption from ‘capital punishment’. (Laughter) Similarly, there is nothing great in amassing money, nothing great in grabbing money. The greatness lies in giving and helping others.

Bhagavan mentioned the story of Draupadi and Krishna. It happened once that Krishna pretended: Krishna acted as if He got His finger cut. It started bleeding. Draupadi was wearing a new sari that day. Many of the ladies noticed the bleeding. One lady went to consult a surgeon for treatment. Another lady went to bring a bandage. Another lady went inside to find some ointment. But Draupadi immediately tore her silk sari. She tore her silk sari and tied it up as a bandage. Later when Draupadi was humiliated, insulted and disrobed in an open court, as act of gratitude, Krishna blessed her with an infinite number of saris. Draupadi gave a piece of cloth and later God gave an infinite number of clothes (to protect her virtue). Similarly, when you give, you get. That is the message of Bhagavan.

Mind is a bundle of thoughts

Now I pass on to the next episode. A boy gave Swami a slip of paper. He wrote some words on it. Bhagavan read it and tore it into pieces. As usual, He tears so nicely. (Laughter) In the Divine hands, everything is an art.

Then He said, “You know what he has written?”

How do I know? I wanted to know.

Swami said again, “You know what he has written?”

“Swami, what has he written?”

“He has written, ‘Bhagavan, my mind is full of negative thoughts. My mind is full of negativity. Please save me.’”

He was courageous enough, frank and free to have written this. Actually, this is true for most of us.

This was Swami's answer: “Boy, understand. It is the mind that is responsible for bondage or liberation. The negative mind takes you to negative actions. Negative actions bear negative results. The mind, when positive, will prompt you to take positive actions. And positive actions will give you positive results. Therefore, never entertain any negative thoughts.”

Bhagavan went on to explain: "Mind has no form. As is the thought, so is the mind. When the thoughts are good, there constitutes a good mind. When thoughts are bad, they make a bad mind. Mind is nothing but a bundle of thoughts. Now boy, you wrote in the letter that your mind is full of negative thoughts. Right. Okay. You know that the thoughts are negative; so you are suffering. Once you know the thoughts are negative and make you suffer, come on! Give them up - throw them away! Don't entertain such thoughts, as negative thoughts will make you suffer. Why should you suffer? Brush them aside.” 

Then He gave this example: “You think something is a rope. Once you come to know that it is a snake, what do you do? Will you kiss it? (Laughter) Immediately you drop it, don't you? Similarly, once you know that the negative thought is making you suffer, drop it immediately!”

write in the mind - preserve in the heart

Now I move on to the next episode. Bhagavan started speaking about a great philosopher. You know him too - Socrates. Socrates is known for his philosophy. He is also known for his wife, who was a termagant, a nagging type. (Laughter) So, he is famous in the home front and for his very high level of intellect.

Bhagavan spoke about Socrates. Socrates was always writing something on paper. The land of Greece was gifted with great intellectuals - Plato, Aristotle and Socrates. They were not ordinary people. Swami was speaking about Socrates. He was a deep thinker and was always writing something on paper. His wife was disgusted with him. (Laughter) Yes, most wives are disgusted (Laughter) when they find their husbands very busy and finding no time (Laughter) to spend with them. And I am no exception! (Laughter)

She said, “What is that you are always writing?”

“Dear, I have some thoughts. I am noting them on paper.”

“Stop writing!” she said. (Laughter)

“No, later I may forget, so I am writing now.”

She couldn't control her fury and anger. She brought a pot full of water and poured it on his head. (Laughter) The fellow was totally drenched. His clothes were completely wet. The papers were totally soaked.

Socrates smiled and said, “Until now, I thought it was thundering.” A rain had also started. (Laughter) Then Socrates said, “Look here dear, I can understand if you are angry with me. I can understand your temper, but you made all the papers wet. I want the information.”

Then she started speaking to him: “What have you written? You have written all that is outside. Had you written what is inside, you wouldn’t need the paper. All those worldly things, worldly matters, other things, you write and forget. But that which is from within, out of your heart, even if the papers are lost, you don't need to worry because they will be imprinted in your mind.”

Then Socrates said, “I accept that you are also intelligent. I accept, yes!”

Bhagavan said, “Boys, teachers always want you to write on paper. I don't say that you should not. But, it’s more important to write in the mind, more important to preserve in your heart, than to simply write down on paper.”

Physically present but Mentally absent

Then we move on to the next episode, which I am sure will carry a message for all of us. My friends, I am not tired to repeat time and again that every conversation of Baba’s is meant for the entire humanity. When Swami stands and talks to Anil Kumar, it is to give darshan to thousands of people in the auditorium. Anil Kumar is an excuse, that's all. If Anil Kumar thinks that Swami stands there because of his excellence in devotion, he is fool number one! (Laughter) God forbid that should ever happen. I may not be a wise man; but thank God, up until now, I am not a fool. Every conversation is meant for everybody - for the whole world.

While talking, Swami turned towards a boy and said, "All are listening to Me; but you, fellow, are thinking about something else." Actually this happens to most of us. We are grateful to Swami that He did not tell us the same thing. Had He started to point out everybody, well, I don't think we would be able to stand it.

As he was a boy, a young fellow, Swami looked at him and said, "When all are hearing Me, you are mentally thinking about something different. That is bad. You are pretending as if you are hearing Me, but I know that you are not listening. Why? Where am I? I am in you! I know where your concentration is." 

Then He turned to everybody and narrated a story from the biography of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, a great sage of India. He is known for his devotion to Mother Kali.

Those who can find time should go to Calcutta and see Goddess Kali.  People say that the Kali temple is one of the important pilgrim centers in India. Up until now, I have not been able to go.  I don't know when Baba will bless me to go around to these places. Someday I wish to go to Arunachala (the holy hill in Tiruvannamalai). Someday I wish to go to Pondicherry. Someday I wish to see Belur Mutt where Ramakrishna Paramahamsa spent his time. These places are all legends. They make human history great; they make our lives sublime and we should remain ever grateful to them.

Bhagavan mentioned a story connected with the life of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: Every evening, he used to talk with a group of devotees. Swami said, “Same as now!” (Laughter) See the link? Please understand this: “Same as now.” This means that the purpose of an Incarnation is to teach an erring humanity, to direct humanity.

Swami said, “One day when Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa was talking about spiritual matters, many people were listening in rapt attention. There was one lady, a very rich lady, who had constructed the temple where Paramahamsa was working as a priest. That lady, Rani Rasamani, financed the construction of the whole temple. She was a rich lady and highly influential. She was there among the audience. While speaking, Paramahamsa suddenly got up. He went straight to her, slapped her one-two on both the cheeks. He returned, sat in the chair and started speaking again. Everybody felt very badly thinking, ‘Paramahamsa, the learned, cannot go like that and slap a lady in public.’ “

“After some time, Paramahamsa started speaking like this. ‘Look here! While I am speaking about spiritual topics, you are not listening to me. You are mentally absent. You are thinking of your court litigation. You are thinking of your court matter. You are engrossed in your wealth. You should have stayed back at home. You should have slept. You should have rested. Why should you come here? You are physically here and mentally absent. What is all this for?’ “

“Immediately, Rani Rasamani apologized. ‘My Lord, I beg your pardon.’”

This Swami mentioned, “Therefore, having come here, you should pay 100% attention to all that is said.” This is the end of that month’s episode.

Rules and Regulations

Now I pass on to the next month. There are certain gaps left in our previous talks. I have carefully noted them down and I am trying to fill them in. What I am talking to you about now appeared in the September issue of the Telugu Sanathana Sarathi during the year 2001. Bhagavan spoke about rules and regulations.

He said, “Today the law-maker is the law-breaker. The rulers of the land never follow the rules. But look here: I always follow the rules of this land. I follow the law of the land. I will never transgress the law and rules of this land!”

Another time Bhagavan said, “God is actor and Director - both actor and Director.”

Usually the director directs and the actor acts, as per the directions of the director, is it not? But Bhagavan, the Divine Cosmic Director, directs and also acts. Why? In directing, He is a Master. In acting, He sets an ideal. How best to act? We should learn from Him. He demonstrates an ideal and how to act. He uses Himself as an example.

Rama was an actor; Krishna was an actor; but the Divinity within was the Director. Am I clear?  Rama acted well, so that we might act like Him – so that we will be ideal parents, ideal citizens and ideal administrators. From Krishna, who was the greatest actor, diplomat and administrator, we may learn lessons of Love, lessons of Peace and how to conduct ourselves in the cosmic drama of life. So, God plays the role of an actor for all of us to emulate and copy. Besides, He is the Director all by Himself. That's what Bhagavan has said.

The rules and regulations are like two banks on either side of the river. Without these banks on either side, the water flows in all directions - in which case, the water cannot be channeled or used to irrigate. By raising banks on either side, the flow of the water can be channeled. Rules and regulations regulate human life so that it will be systematic and disciplined.

Let us look at Swami's life - what a disciplined life it is! Can anyone tell me an instance when Swami canceled any of the items in His daily routine? No! Be it the day of the President of India’s visit or the day of the Indian Prime Minister’s visit or the visit of the Prime Minister of Sri Lanka - any VIP man may happen to visit Prashanti Nilayam, but our Bhagavan has His regular schedule of darshan, interviews, bhajans, followed by lunch, and then again in the afternoon, darshan, interviews and bhajans. That’s all. There will never be any break. If VIP’s or important people come, He will have an extra load of work. On special functions and festivals, He will have an extra load of work. Everything with Swami is ‘in addition to’. It is nothing like ‘besides’. It is not ‘in place of something else’. It is always ‘in addition to’. You understand my point: Swami goes on working - always extra work. Nothing is ever cut short from His daily routine. His is the best example for discipline and for observance of rules and regulations.

Primary School children make best speeches

Now I move on to the next episode. Swami sat there and somehow He was in a good mood. "Umm...Come on boys, chant the Veda, chant the Veda."

In perfect harmony, all the fifteen hundred students started chanting the Veda. The whole auditorium was full of resonance, echoing with the sound of the Veda. The entire gathering felt the vibrations of the Vedic chanting.

This is most interesting to note: In all the Sathya Sai educational institutions, the students, right from a child in kindergarten to the topmost Ph.D. boy, all know the Veda. All can chant. You must have already noticed that. On all occasions, they chant the Veda.

All of a sudden our God turned towards the side and asked one primary school boy, "Aye, boy, come here."  That boy came. Then the Divine command: "Hmm, speak for some time."

The boy started speaking. He was a very young fellow. If Swami asked you to speak now, could you speak like that? Impossible! Little children can do that. Swami really enjoyed listening.

"Hmmm, go.” Then He asked another boy, “Hmmm, you speak.”

That fellow spoke in Hindi.

Then Swami said, "Accha, go, go." He asked another boy, and he spoke in Sanskrit.

When Swami turned towards us again, fifteen of those boys stood in line, in a queue. Every fellow wanted to speak!

Swami said, "Arre, arre, arre, so many boys! Enough. That is enough. I will give you another chance (later)." But He didn’t want to disappoint them. So again He had them speak, one after another.

Really, it was a fantastic experience! Before thousands of people, children were lining up to speak in front of Bhagavan. Then Bhagavan walked slowly towards me: "Have you heard their speeches?"

“Swami, I heard them.”

"Can your students speak like that? Your university boys, can they speak like that?"

I thought, ‘Should I say that they can’t? (Laughter) What can I say? I have to live with them.’ (Laughter) If I say that they can, Swami will say, “Sit down! What do you know?” (Laughter) So, I kept quiet.

Then Swami said, "They cannot. Primary school children can make the best speeches, not your university boys."

I thought that if I kept quiet, the university boys would feel badly. They will say, ‘Sir, you should have supported us there.”

So I said, "Swami, why? Why can they speak? Why can’t we speak? I want to know."

Baba said, "All children can speak excellently. Why? They are innocent. Because of their innocence, they have no fear. But with university fellows, there is no innocence. They are full of ego.  Because of ego, they have fear about whether their speech will be a success or a total failure. So they begin to doubt. Understand that where there is innocence, there is Divinity."

“Swami, all right. I have to accept this. Why is there ego among college students? Why are college students egoistic?"

Swami said, "As they grow in age, along with muscle power, ego increases."

“Oh Swami, what shall we do? What shall we do now?”

Swami said, "The strength of your heart is more important than your muscular power. Senior boys are egoistic because of their physical strength. That is not important."

Then I said, “Swami, all right. You say the muscle power of youth is responsible for ego. I have a simple doubt.”

"Hmm, what is your doubt?"

“Old people are weak. They don't have strong muscles. Does it mean that they have no ego?” (Laughter) We see many old people – abba, Himalayan ego! There are some people who don't allow us to stand; they don't allow us to sit. (Laughter) Do they do this because of senility?  What to do?

One devotee came to me and said, “Sir, this man is not allowing me to sit. He says, ‘Get up.’ When I stand, the man says, ‘Don't stand here.’ What shall I do?”

I said, “Keep on moving.” (Laughter) What can I say? I said, “Because he doesn't allow you to sit or stand, keep on moving. Continue to move.” If he says, “Why do you stand?” you say, “I am going.” (Laughter) When you sit, “Why are you sitting?” say, “I am going to stand.” (Laughter) There is no other way. (Laughter)

“Therefore, Swami, old people don't have strong muscles. Do You think they have no ego? Youngsters have strong muscles, meaning physical strength. Therefore, they are egoistic. I understand.”

Then Bhagavan said, "In old age, muscle power is gone; but their hearts are still very harsh, very rough, very tough. They are stonehearted fellows. Therefore, they are still egoistic. Muscle power is dwindling; muscle power is decreasing; but their hearts are stony, very harsh and very rough. Therefore, they are egoistic."

Swami always has the best answer. We cannot corner Him. No, impossible!

“Then Swami, what is it that we should have in order to be fearless? To be fearless, what do You tell these youngsters to cultivate?”

Baba said, "Samatha – Equality, Samagratha - Integrity, Samaikyatha – Unity, Sowbhrathratha - Fraternity. When these four are in you, you will be fearless."

I repeat once again: Samatha – Equality, Samagratha – Integrity, Samaikyatha – Unity, Sowbhrathratha – Fraternity.  When you have these four, you will be fearless.

I have no Witness

Now I move on to another episode. It happened to be a Thursday. As you know, in our college every Thursday morning, we have one full hour for a spiritual activity. We will have a guest speaker, a panel discussion or a spiritual quiz - something like that.

That evening Swami asked, "What did you have this morning in the college?"

The boys said, “Swami, we had one guest speaker who spoke on Madhwacharya, a great exponent, a great philosopher, who advocated the principle of dualism.” 

Bhagavan started inquiring, “What did you understand from his talk? Tell Me a few points.”

The boys could not answer. They could say, “It was fantastic. Please, we will meet tomorrow.” But they were not ready with an answer. When Swami asked what the points were, they could not immediately say.

Then He looked at me. “What do you say?”

Well, I wanted to focus so that I might provoke Swami to come forward with new dimensions on the same topic. So I said, “Swami, this morning the learned scholar spoke on an aspect called the ‘witness’ or in Sanskrit, sakshi. Sakshi – witness. He spoke on that. Swami, could you please explain a little more on that?”

Bhagavan said, "When he spoke, why should I explain? (Laughter) You go and talk to him." Then suddenly He said, "I have no witness."

Please understand the depth and the profundity of this statement: “I have no witness.” It is really a profound statement. It may appear to be simple. No! The witness is the Self in every one of us. I think I am clear. Witness is the Self. This means that I know what is correct and what is wrong. I know what is happening. I know what is happening in my dream. That ‘I’ - which is beyond time and space, region, religion, caste, community, language, gender, age, or whatever else may be - is the Eternal Witness. That ‘I’, that witness, is Divine. That ‘I’, the witness, is Brahman - is God. So when Baba said, “I have no witness”, what does He mean? He is the Witness! There is no question of another witness in Him, because He is the Witness in all! Am I clear? That's why Baba said, "I have no witness."

Believe me, I don't know about the reaction of other students and teachers who are familiar with His literature and interested in spirituality and philosophy, but to me, hearing this was something like an electric shock. Yes! I lost myself thinking of that Eternal Witness, which is very well stated in all the scriptures.

“Then, Swami?”

"Ah yes, what now?"

“Swami, this morning the learned scholar made references to certain examples.”

"What were they?"

“Swami, I could not understand properly.”

With reference to dualism, qualified non-dualism and non-dualism, the speaker had given a few examples. I wanted Swami to speak, so that all would benefit. (People have not come here to hear my talk. I am fully aware of that; I am highly conscious of that. My job is only to extract more information - to make Him speak!)

Then Baba started speaking like this: “The three schools of philosophy - dualism, qualified non-dualism and non-dualism - are complimentary to each other; they are not contradictory. They are evolutionary, not revolutionary. They are sequential: one is the corollary to the other.”

“Ah, Swami.”

Then He gave examples: a tender fruit, an unripe fruit and a ripe fruit. “The ripe fruit today was an unripe fruit a few days back. Much earlier, the unripe fruit was a tender fruit. So the same tender fruit develops, becomes ripe and fully ripens. Similarly, dualism takes you to qualified non-dualism and, at the end, to non-dualism. So dualism, qualified non-dualism and non-dualism are the three states of transition, one leading to the other.”

Then Swami said, “There is clay, the pot and the individual - three. An individual makes use of the pot made out of the clay. Similarly, nature is the clay. The potter is God. The pot is the individual. Clear? These are like the three states of consciousness, the three schools of philosophy - dualism, qualified non-dualism and non-dualism.

Then I said “Swami, pardon me for this question.”

"Yes, what is the question?"

“Dualism says that God and man are separate. According to the theory of dualism (Dwaitha), God and man are different. Then, what is moksha or liberation?” (My friends, do not consider this question simple and silly. Our idea of moksha or liberation is to find Oneness with God, to find our identity with God. Now dualism says, “God and man are different.” If this is true, then what is moksha? What is liberation?)

Baba said, "In My mind, absence of attachment is moksha. When there is no (moha) attachment, that is (moksha) liberation.  Moha kshya  (moha - attachment, kshya – reduction) is moksha.” Am I clear?

Finally Swami said, "You may say a number of things, but Truth is One, Truth is One."

Being a student from a Christian college, immediately I said, “Swami, in the Bible it says: ‘Ye shall know the Truth and the Truth should set you free.’” When Swami said that the Truth is One, how true it is!

Bookish knowledge is superficial

In the next episode, Swami asked, “What happened this morning in the college? What was the program?”

I said, “Swami, we had the students speak on Christianity.”

"Oh, I see. Good. What did they say about the Bible? What did they say about the Ten Commandments? What did they say about Jesus Christ?"

He went on bombarding us with questions, one after another. The boys got up and in their own way said, “Swami, these are the Ten Commandments…” listing one, two, three, etc. Then,  “Swami, Christ was great. He was one of Love and sacrifice.”

"Oh, good!" Swami liked it.

Finally He said, "Look here. All that you said is based on your bookish knowledge, which is superficial knowledge. What you should have said is what you felt about it from your own heart, from your own vibration, your own inner voice - your own intuition. Based on that, you should have spoken, rather than on the collected information from different books. Bookish knowledge is all scholarship. Scholarship is only an exhibition. Scholarship is an act of vanity. Don't do that."

“So Swami, what shall we do now? Shall we stop reading?” (Laughter)

Swami said, “No. Speak based on your experiences. Don’t go merely by expression. Have experience as the foundation. Then expression will have some value.”

Then Swami said, “Boys, you know Vedanta.”

In English, we say ‘philosophy’. But truly speaking, philosophy is just a translation, an apology for the word. It does not convey the depth of the meaning of the word Vedanta. Vedanta is a Sanskrit word. Philosophy is an English word.

Swami says, “Full loss, fill loss - philosophy. (Laughter) Full loss - full of loss. Fill that loss, so that it becomes philosophy.”

“Oh, I see. Then what is Vedanta, Swami?”

Swami said this: “Vedanta is the climax. Vedanta is the zenith. Vedanta is the ultimate.”

“How? I don't know.”

Baba said, “Here is milk. Boil it. Wait for some time and you can curdle it. Next morning you get curd, don't you? Now what do you do? Churn it and churn it and you get butter, don't you? Now heat that butter and you get ghee. Then heat the ghee; it remains as ghee. Milk is the first state, the second state is curd, the third state is butter and the fourth state is ghee. There is no other state beyond it. So Veda is the milk, while Vedanta is the end, the ghee, the finale, the ultimate.”

“Ah, Swami! We make use of ghee and we like butter, but we didn’t know that it could be applied to philosophy and Vedanta. What an excellent way to explain!”

When you act according to the command of God, you will get everything in life

Suddenly Swami called one boy and asked, “What's your name?”

He said, “Swami, my name?”

“Yes.”

“Parasuram, Parasuram.”

“Oh, I see.” He looked at me. "You know anything about Parasuram?"

“Swami, he is a M.Sc. fellow.”

"Cha! Not this fellow! Parasuram of your mythology, of your epics."

“Oh I know, Swami.”

“What? What do you know?”

“Parasuram happens to be one of the ten Incarnations of Vishnu, the Divine. Parasuram killed all the warrior clan, the Kshatriyas. He killed everybody except two, who escaped. One was the father of Rama, Dasaratha. The other was the father of Sita, Janaka. Swami, how could they escape? When Parasuram killed all Kshatriyas, the warrior class, how could these two escape?”

Swami said, “Even in killing, there is one discipline." (Laughter)

“Oh, I see. What is the discipline?”

“When anyone is found doing yagna, he should not be killed. And when one is getting married, he should not be killed. Dasaratha had three wives. At the time Parasuram was about to attack him, he was getting married to one of his wives, so he was exempt. When Parasuram was about to kill Janaka, he found him doing some yagna, so he was exempt. That led to the birth of Rama here and Sita there. It led to a celestial wedding, Sita - Rama.” That’s what Swami said.

Then Swami began explaining a story relating to Parasuram. “The name of the father of Parasuram was Jamadagni, the name of a saint. The name of the mother of Parasuram was Renuka. One day Jamadagni, the father of Parasuram, was very angry with his wife, Renuka, and called his son Parasuram.”

“‘Come here, boy. Take the sword and kill your mother.’ Immediately Parasuram picked up the sword and killed his mother. His father was very happy because his son had immediately obeyed his command.”

“The father said, ‘My dear son, I am pleased with your conduct. Now I am going to grant you a boon. What do you want? I will give it to you.’ The son said, ‘Dear Father, bring my mother back to life.’ Immediately, Renuka was resurrected; she was brought back to life.”

Swami's comment let us know that when you fulfill the desire of God, when you act according to the command of God, you will receive everything in life. For his obedience to Jamadagni, Parasuram got the best prestige, a name that is remembered until this day. His good deed brought his mother back to life. That's what Swami told.

With thanks to Bhagavan, we will meet again later. Thank you very much. Sai Ram.

OM…OM…OM…

         Om Asato Maa Sad Gamaya

Tamaso Maa Jyotir Gamaya

Mrtyormaa Amrtam Gamaya

Om Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu

Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu

Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu

Om Shanti Shanti Shanti

Jai Bolo Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba Ji Ki Jai

Thank you.