Swami Stories Taken From Sunday Talks Given by Anil Kumar

Taken from “Stories and Incidents with Swami,” August 27th, 2000

 

SAKSHI

Swami explained ‘sakshi’ in the following way: There is a principle of ‘sakshi’ or witness in every one of us. Witness is the aspect which is unaffected by the experience. Witness is the experiencer. Experience and experiencer are separate. Seeing and seer are separate. Hearing and hearer or listener, are separate. So, this sakshi, the witness in me, is the seer and not the seen. He is the hearer, but not hearing. That experiencer in me is the witness. The experiencer is Divine. The experiencer is unaffected by bumps and jumps in life. The experiencer is not affected by anything.

"What do You mean? I suffer. Why do You say I don’t experience suffering? I enjoy pie, donuts and all that. I like cool drinks and ice cream. Why do You say I don’t enjoy? What nonsense You speak?"

"I am not speaking any nonsense. There’s some sense in it. The experiencer appears as if he experiences because of the mind. It is only the mind that experiences – good experience-bad experience, praise-blame, profit-loss, elation-frustration, pride, and ego, depression – that’s all the experience of the mind. But even the mind functions because of the witness, sakshi.

There may be a state when mind does not function. A simple example: When you are in deep sleep in the night, when there are no dreams, nothing; there is witness. There is no mind. It is a no-mind state, what you also call annihilation of the mind or withdrawal of the mind or absence of the mind. It is only the mind that experiences. So, when the witness is affected for the mind to function, it appears as if you are experiencing. Actually the witness does not experience. It is only the witness to different stages of experiences. It is the mind that is the cause and the response to different types of experiences."

 

RESOLVING DOUBTS ON DUALISM

There was a talk given by a scholar on dualism. In dualism we think of the devotee and God as separate. The devotee never merges into God. There’s nothing like oneness. So the individual and the Divine are separate. This is what is called dualism.

After this speaker finished his talk, there was no time for a question and answer session to answer the doubts of any of the listeners. So Anil Kumar brought his questions to the darshan line and Swami.

Bhagavan started inquiring about the guest speaker: "What did he speak?" They had some of the points that the scholar spoke. Swami said, "Yes, yes, nice, nice." But as Anil Kumar had some doubts, he wanted to ask Swami. Swami mischievously said, "You’ll find the speaker sitting over there. You go and ask him. Why don’t you ask him?"

"Swami, the speaker didn’t find time to clarify my doubts. He didn’t call for any question and answer session. I too have some doubts."

Swami said, "What is the doubt?"

"The doubt is this: The speaker mentioned three words – clay or mud, pot and the potter. But he has not said what they stand for. What is the clay? What is the pot? Who is the potter? What has it got to do with the Vedanta of dualism?" I asked.

Swami said, "Come on, I take you to him. You talk to him."

Then Swami asked, "What else?"

"Swami, the speaker said that the devotee will never merge in the Divine according to dualistic philosophy. According to that school of thought, the individual does not find identity with the Divine. Then the speaker said that after death, a devotee should not be born again."

And Swami said, "Then what?"

Then I said, "Swami, if he (the devotee) is not going to merge in God, if he is not going to be born again, where is he going to live? Suspension! Where is he? Either there or here? I don’t know." He said, "You are here anyway!"

"My third doubt is this: The speaker also mentioned one word ‘sakshi’. ‘Sakshi’ means witness. He did not explain who the witness is. Who is the witness in me? What do you mean by witness? These are my three doubts," I said.

Out of His compassion, Swami clarified these doubts, which I want to share with you, in the reverse order. Bhagavan explains in such a way that you’ll not have doubts at any point of time. Easily you can follow.

 

Swami Stories Taken From Sunday Talks Given by Anil Kumar

Taken from “Selected Sai Stories,” August 27th, 2000

“RESOLVING DOUBTS ON DUALISM.”

Anil Kumar related  various recent stories and conversation devotees have had with Swami. He began by relating a recent incident, which followed a talk given by a scholar on dualism. In dualism we think of the devotee and God as separate. The devotee never merges into God. There’s nothing like oneness. So the individual and the Divine are separate. This is what is called dualism.

After this speaker finished his talk, there was no time for a question and answer session to answer the doubts of any of the listeners. So Anil Kumar brought his questions to the darshan line and Swami.

Bhagavan started inquiring about the guest speaker: "What did he speak?" They had some of the points that the scholar spoke. Swami said, "Yes, yes, nice, nice." But as Anil Kumar had some doubts, he wanted to ask Swami. Swami mischievously said, "You’ll find the speaker sitting over there. You go and ask him. Why don’t you ask him?"

"Swami, the speaker didn’t find time to clarify my doubts. He didn’t call for any question and answer session. I too have some doubts."

Swami said, "What is the doubt?"

"The doubt is this: The speaker mentioned three words – clay or mud, pot and the potter. But he has not said what they stand for. What is the clay? What is the pot? Who is the potter? What has it got to do with the Vedanta of dualism?" I asked.

Swami said, "Come on, I take you to him. You talk to him."

Then Swami asked, "What else?"

"Swami, the speaker said that the devotee will never merge in the Divine according to dualistic philosophy. According to that school of thought, the individual does not find identity with the Divine. Then the speaker said that after death, a devotee should not be born again."

And Swami said, "Then what?"

Then I said, "Swami, if he (the devotee) is not going to merge in God, if he is not going to be born again, where is he going to live? Suspension! Where is he? Either there or here? I don’t know."

He said, "You are here anyway!"

"My third doubt is this: The speaker also mentioned one word ‘sakshi’. ‘Sakshi’ means witness. He did not explain who the witness is. Who is the witness in me? What do you mean by witness? These are my three doubts," I said.

Out of His compassion, Swami clarified these doubts, which I want to share with you, in the reverse order. Bhagavan explains in such a way that you’ll not have doubts at any point of time. Easily you can follow.

 

GOD HAS NO WITNESS -- HE IS ONE-WITHOUT-A-SECOND

 

Now Baba said, "I have no witness."

Let us try to understand this statement: God is the witness in everyone. The witness in you, the witness in me, the witness in everyone, is God Himself. Who is the witness to God? No one. There’s nothing like ‘sakshi’ in Divinity – no separate witness. When He is the witness in me, He has no other witness.

Another point: God is the One-without-a-second. Swami always tells this. Whenever Swami says, "God is only one", when I translate it, immediately Swami says, "Not two. Not two. Only One; not two." Why should He say, "Not two" - because we are always dual. We are always divided. We’re always fragmented, segmented.

God is the witness in everyone and He has no other witness because He’s the One-without-a-second. He’s the only One-without-a-second. It’s a simple, innocent statement. It carries so much of depth, a profound statement.